The way things are going and the level of frustration with both the UWP and SLP no one should discount the possiblity of a 3rd party win. Some people can think far ahead including you.
When the time come the people go decide with who St Lucia is staying with.
If China contributed just as much as Taiwan, why are you so partial to Taiwan? And what then is the problem with reestablishing ties with China? The bigger issue is: where would St. lucia stand if China and Taiwan should become one "country" tomorrow? What leverage will the island have with China? And why would China want to have relations with St. Lucia after the way it was treated?
You are right to say the people should have a say. But the people must first be educated about the pros and cons of the issue. This has never been done in St. Lucia and sadly your piece contributes very little to that objective.
No third party could ever win an election in St Lucia in the near future, so we must cope with what we have for now, SLP and uwp. Many third parties have tried to raise their heads, none have servived. We are yet to see the benefits of Tiawan work in agriculture, i am not saying there will be none, but we are suffering very much from the Chinese leaving us. Our mental hospital would have been finished by now, now that St Jude is burnt down our new general hospital, would have been completed to accomodate the patients, instead of make shift places as we have now. Our cultural complex would have been started by now, we would have gotten US 100 million dollars towards our budget, to develope St Lucia. etc, etc
The person who spoke for the people of St Lucia, is one who live all his life in St Lucia, have voted many times, have studied the politics of St Lucia very closely. That is why he can talk for St Lucia. If you can proof me wrong, PLEASE come up with your facts.
SLP was crazy enough to provide a primary and secondary school place for each and every one of us in 9 yrs. Uwp could not have done it in 30 long yrs. That is why we have so many mad people in that dirty Golden Hope, which uwp saw fit to put St Lucians. I am very glad to hear that it is only SlP that is getting mad. Now you must go to St Lucia to hear and see, mostly evereybody is MAD against the uwp government, for creating scandals after scandals and having the country in a MESS.
This is rather foolish. The international community does not recognise taiwan as a state. We are out of step with international law and international diplomacy regarding our insistence on diplomatic relations with Taiwan. Further we have fallen out of step with China which is one of the most poweful countries in the world and will be one of the major driving forces behind the world economic recovery. the bad decisions made by our leaders have combined with bad economic circumstances to put us in a situation where we are on the brink. So to ask whether they would renew is studpid. To be in line with international law they would have to re-establish relations with China. And to those of you trying to put the SLP on the same level as the UWP. I am a non partisan observer and I want to say St. Lucians need to recognise that whatever the faults of Labour they were a more than competent government. Never mind party affiliation, the level of stewardship that St. Lucia is now saddled with is frightening and dangerous. And based on a comparison of the polices and work of the this current UWP government compared to the previous Labour one...Labour is an infinitely superior choice. Hell the Compton government of the 80's with all its accusations of corruption is better than this...To get back to the point...the decision to go with Taiwan was the first sign that this government was not operating within the international political realities of the day and a sign that it was carelessy burning important international bridges. Small developing countries need large powerful ones whihc are sympathetic to their cause...It is clear that this government has no idea of how to deal with the international community in order to secure the best advantages for the country.
Well said last blogger. while we in St. Lucia are pinning our hopes on Taiwan, the GOvernment in that island is cozying up to its true owner, China and the two are strengthening their trade, investment and cultural ties. The current Government of Taiwan is far more supportive of re-unification with China than the previous Government whose PM was recently jailed for life for corruption. And you can be sure that when China and Taiwan reunite, China will have no time for us.
The fact is that if Taiwan and China unite, it will be like the end of the cold war -- China will have no need to buy off little countries like Saint Lucia to keep them from recognizing Taiwan.
As for the poster who claimed he was "a non partisan observer" and then immediately revealed his SLP bias, did you ever think that in choosing to which "john" Saint Lucia should prostitute itself, she should ignore the other prostitutes of international diplomacy and choose the government of Taiwan that is elected by the people rather than the government of the mainland which is not.
Let's not even mention human rights, although I am impressed by the Beijing government's curtailing of the practice of executing people and then harvesting their organs, or so they say.
Let me first say, interesting article. But some of the points are accurate and some are not. I believe deciding whether Taiwan or China is the country of choice is a political issue for lucians to consider. It is clear that SLP does not favor Taiwan, and the UWP does.
The article claims that SLP does not recognize Taiwan as a country. That is not accurate. in a number of speeches, SLP has claimed that Taiwan interferes in the politics of St. Lucia, they disrespects the people of the country, and does other things not appropriate of an ambassador. That is different from saying that they do not recognize Taiwan as a country.
Nonetheless one cannot discount the contributions of Taiwan to St. Lucia. China has also made numerous contributions to St. Lucia. It needs to be determined whether China would continue with some of the developments started by Taiwan, as well as what else they are willing to contribute. Off course this is not the only issue one should continue in selecting a government. The merits of each party needs to be considered.
The issue that banana seedling will improve the quantity produced and reduce cost to farmers is more than likely true. The problem is, that is not the main issue with bananas. One the main issues is the market itself. The price bananas is sold at has been reduced significantly, and the demand for Caribbean bananas has declined with the the change in market framework (ie removing the preferential treatment). Farmers are finding it not to their benefit to produce as much cause most of it remains at the docks (it is not that they cannot).
But off course diversification of the agricultural industry is important for a small open economy like St. Lucia.
In general, I like they direction the article is asking persons to think in, despite some points being slightly misunderstood.
to the individual who questions my non partisan stance...I am merely comparing the governments this country has had...from a perspect I might ad of how international agencies and investors see us...are we stable, reliable and worth the time and effort...you talk of prostitution and communist countries ...your are living in trhe dark ages...you really think any developed countries care about human rights...I have had the privilege to do work in the oldest human rights body in the UN. Trust me when you see..the united states, britain, sweden and so on reporting thier human rights records and being qiestioned by a panel of international legal experts...you know that politicla ideologies have nothing to do with human rights abuses...unfortunately small countries have to play real politik to survive it is a fact of our circumstance and size not of protitution....there is no time for utopian political concepts in real effective governance...as barbados, switzerland or the bahamas small countries who have effectively used real politik to their economic advantage...overcoming the constraints of their..... I really fear for this country when people are still so concerned with utopian political ideologies....small countries do not have the luxury of engaging in such overly ideological and academic rhetoric.
As decendents of slaves, we have the right not to take money from countries like china where people do not have complete freedom. We shall never forget slavery.
I am baffled at Caribbean political and opinion leaders enchantment with Fidel Castro. I am baffled as to why his commentaries are even considered for publication in a free journal such as yours. His people cannot read whatever you may publish of his opinings. For that matter they cannot read anything else you publish unless the do so illegally. I sometimes fear that the other Caribbean leaders would like to have such devastating powers over their people. This does not bode well for the pockets and economies of the the Caribbean masses.
These leaders and other take refuge in sayings such as: Cuba has great educational and medical systems. So what? Mussolini made the trains run on time. Hitler brought back much needed pride and discipline to German society. The lesson is not just what a leader has accomplished, but to what end has he accomplished it? Is it to create efficiencies to further oppress peoples and to aggregate power and allegience to himself? Or is it to increase the well being and productivity of the governed? Castro has done his "good" things for the former reasons. He oppresses those who oppose him. He forbids internal criticism and jails those who organize against him. Yet he gains praise and adulation across the Caribbean. Why? Because he gives a few hand outs.
Those Caribbean leaders who praise Castro should be ashamed of themselves. Where else in the world can a white man and a few white elites control a population of majority Blacks and let them live in utter abject poverty? Only in Cuba today. Fidel is white with no black ancestors. The vast majority of the Politburo is white with about three token Blacks. Black Cubans are rlegated to the most menial jobs and can obtain few jobs in the valued sectors such government or tourism. Many Blacks pass for white so the can obtain economic and social benefits. The majority of political prisoners are blacks. Yet no voice rises up to cry like they justly did with South Africa. The vocal praise the only white leader that is oppressing majority Blacks today. They should be ashamed.
Let me remind you that the UPW government was not all in favour with re-establishing diplomatic relations with the Taiwaneese Government. Remember that's what caused the conflict withing the party that caused Compton to fire Bousquet. The Taiwaneese are trying their best but they fall short of what China - a world power - can do more for St. Lucia. Helping the agricultural sector, looks and sound Ok, but it's almost a dead end... too mch competition on the world market in both the banana and orchid market. Central (bananas) and South America (orchids) already flood these markets. What we need is help to take us into the informatic age and help build our decaying inferstructure. Maybe the Chinese could revisit building the four-lane-highway... baring in mind the total decay of the roads in St. Lucia. Taiwan cannot really help us... didn't they just accept a $100,000.00 donations from our government!
Bury this loaded crap of yours. A world power can do more for us?? World powers are what have us where we are today. Taiwan in my view have done much more than all of the useless ediface that China but together during Kenny's time.
They are much smarter than the Chinese and they know how to use money wisely. More power to them.
If you worrying too much. China ain't gonna be returning to St Lucia anytime soon.
Donjuan I take your point. I think we can agree here. yes it was this diplomatic decision that caused the rift. There was internal disagreement among the more progressive members of the party and those who had small eyes on short term political and financial gain. I'd say that the small eyed men in the UWP won the argument against the moore progressive party members...to all of our detriment.
Some of the persons using the human rights argument to refuse diplomatic relations with China...please ask Taiwan about its human rights record, also the USA, Britain and all the others...and they all trade and their economies are assisting each other with investment to get out the financial crisis. Forget about ideological arguments between communism and democracy...those have been superseded by other things long ago...this is our moment in international economic history to take of and secure our development prospects. We cannot afford to get caught up in the ideological battles that big countries use on each other as political whips...because they want to gain leverage in each other's markets...wake up and smell the coffee...Taiwan was the biggest diplomatic faux pas St. Lucia ever made!!
Why was Kenny against it when the SLP came to office in 2006. Why hasn't Kenny given recognition to George Odlum for coming up with that idea. Why is it that most SLP supporters and bias to admit that George Odlum was a "wise" man and Kenny is an idiot. You can't have your cake and it too. The name of George Odlum is handly spoken within SLP circles yet his principles are what Labour continues to follow even to this day.
They want to bring down the government through demonstration and protest. Wasn't that the same Kenny who once said that the era of militancy is over. This was George Odlum's time? They want to bring China back. Isn't this the same Kenny who innitially oppposed it. What a great contradiction. What a two tongue leadership.
Accept it. The ghost of George Odlum is Labour. Labour could not do without George in life they can't do with George in death.
As long as there are two governments, one in Taipei and one in Beijing, there are cows to be milked. If China and Taiwan combine, Saint Lucia will get NOTHING from the combined country regardless of whether or not Saint Lucia re-recognized Taiwan in 2007.
The opportune approach until unification (if it happens), then, is to milk the cow that gives the best milk.
What can China offer? Cheap labour. They brought their own workers over to build the white elephants they left behind.
What can Taiwan offer? Intellectual property. They are teaching tissue culture, for example.
One only has to look at the reciprocal investment between the two countries to see who is the brains and who is the brawn.
Maybe China can teach us how to work for $1/day.
Don't bother replying unless you can supply some rationale in your reply.
We don't like bullies and china is a big one just like chavez. Remember how china threatened us when we established diplomatic ties with Taiwan? You can take your threats and go shove it, goliath.
28 comments:
It would be really really stupid of the SLP to change from Taiwan to China.
Micah
The way things are going and the level of frustration with both the UWP and SLP no one should discount the possiblity of a 3rd party win. Some people can think far ahead including you.
When the time come the people go decide with who St Lucia is staying with.
If China contributed just as much as Taiwan, why are you so partial to Taiwan? And what then is the problem with reestablishing ties with China? The bigger issue is: where would St. lucia stand if China and Taiwan should become one "country" tomorrow? What leverage will the island have with China? And why would China want to have relations with St. Lucia after the way it was treated?
You are right to say the people should have a say. But the people must first be educated about the pros and cons of the issue. This has never been done in St. Lucia and sadly your piece contributes very little to that objective.
No third party could ever win an election in St Lucia in the near future, so we must cope with what we have for now, SLP and uwp. Many third parties have tried to raise their heads, none have servived. We are yet to see the benefits of Tiawan work in agriculture, i am not saying there will be none, but we are suffering very much from the Chinese leaving us. Our mental hospital would have been finished by now, now that St Jude is burnt down our new general hospital, would have been completed to accomodate the patients, instead of make shift places as we have now. Our cultural complex would have been started by now, we would have gotten US 100 million dollars towards our budget, to develope St Lucia. etc, etc
SLP will win the next election.
The people of St Lucia must cope with marge SLP and UWP? Who speaks for the people of St Lucia. Give me a break.
The person who spoke for the people of St Lucia, is one who live all his life in St Lucia, have voted many times, have studied the politics of St Lucia very closely. That is why he can talk for St Lucia. If you can proof me wrong, PLEASE come up with your facts.
The Chinese was building the mental hospital for all those crazy SLP people, some of you should just go and check in.
For how were they building the general hospital?
For crazy political hacks
SLP was crazy enough to provide a primary and secondary school place for each and every one of us in 9 yrs. Uwp could not have done it in 30 long yrs. That is why we have so many mad people in that dirty Golden Hope, which uwp saw fit to put St Lucians. I am very glad to hear that it is only SlP that is getting mad. Now you must go to St Lucia to hear and see, mostly evereybody is MAD against the uwp government, for creating scandals after scandals and having the country in a MESS.
Everybody made against the UWP for causing scandal and only 6,000 people out of 100,000 registered voters turn out for the demonstration. LOL
Do the maths. The people you all hard there is the same crowd that followed the SLP in the last election. Check it out and come back again. LOL
NO one cann claim to speak for the people of st lucia til they speak in the ballot box. You wasting precious time talk grip.
This is rather foolish. The international community does not recognise taiwan as a state. We are out of step with international law and international diplomacy regarding our insistence on diplomatic relations with Taiwan. Further we have fallen out of step with China which is one of the most poweful countries in the world and will be one of the major driving forces behind the world economic recovery. the bad decisions made by our leaders have combined with bad economic circumstances to put us in a situation where we are on the brink. So to ask whether they would renew is studpid. To be in line with international law they would have to re-establish relations with China. And to those of you trying to put the SLP on the same level as the UWP. I am a non partisan observer and I want to say St. Lucians need to recognise that whatever the faults of Labour they were a more than competent government. Never mind party affiliation, the level of stewardship that St. Lucia is now saddled with is frightening and dangerous. And based on a comparison of the polices and work of the this current UWP government compared to the previous Labour one...Labour is an infinitely superior choice. Hell the Compton government of the 80's with all its accusations of corruption is better than this...To get back to the point...the decision to go with Taiwan was the first sign that this government was not operating within the international political realities of the day and a sign that it was carelessy burning important international bridges. Small developing countries need large powerful ones whihc are sympathetic to their cause...It is clear that this government has no idea of how to deal with the international community in order to secure the best advantages for the country.
Well said last blogger. while we in St. Lucia are pinning our hopes on Taiwan, the GOvernment in that island is cozying up to its true owner, China and the two are strengthening their trade, investment and cultural ties. The current Government of Taiwan is far more supportive of re-unification with China than the previous Government whose PM was recently jailed for life for corruption. And you can be sure that when China and Taiwan reunite, China will have no time for us.
The fact is that if Taiwan and China unite, it will be like the end of the cold war -- China will have no need to buy off little countries like Saint Lucia to keep them from recognizing Taiwan.
As for the poster who claimed he was "a non partisan observer" and then immediately revealed his SLP bias, did you ever think that in choosing to which "john" Saint Lucia should prostitute itself, she should ignore the other prostitutes of international diplomacy and choose the government of Taiwan that is elected by the people rather than the government of the mainland which is not.
Let's not even mention human rights, although I am impressed by the Beijing government's curtailing of the practice of executing people and then harvesting their organs, or so they say.
I have no respect for communist countries, it's modern slavery. So down with China, Cuba, venezuela etc...
Let me first say, interesting article. But some of the points are accurate and some are not. I believe deciding whether Taiwan or China is the country of choice is a political issue for lucians to consider. It is clear that SLP does not favor Taiwan, and the UWP does.
The article claims that SLP does not recognize Taiwan as a country. That is not accurate. in a number of speeches, SLP has claimed that Taiwan interferes in the politics of St. Lucia, they disrespects the people of the country, and does other things not appropriate of an ambassador. That is different from saying that they do not recognize Taiwan as a country.
Nonetheless one cannot discount the contributions of Taiwan to St. Lucia. China has also made numerous contributions to St. Lucia. It needs to be determined whether China would continue with some of the developments started by Taiwan, as well as what else they are willing to contribute. Off course this is not the only issue one should continue in selecting a government. The merits of each party needs to be considered.
The issue that banana seedling will improve the quantity produced and reduce cost to farmers is more than likely true. The problem is, that is not the main issue with bananas. One the main issues is the market itself. The price bananas is sold at has been reduced significantly, and the demand for Caribbean bananas has declined with the the change in market framework (ie removing the preferential treatment). Farmers are finding it not to their benefit to produce as much cause most of it remains at the docks (it is not that they cannot).
But off course diversification of the agricultural industry is important for a small open economy like St. Lucia.
In general, I like they direction the article is asking persons to think in, despite some points being slightly misunderstood.
to the individual who questions my non partisan stance...I am merely comparing the governments this country has had...from a perspect I might ad of how international agencies and investors see us...are we stable, reliable and worth the time and effort...you talk of prostitution and communist countries ...your are living in trhe dark ages...you really think any developed countries care about human rights...I have had the privilege to do work in the oldest human rights body in the UN. Trust me when you see..the united states, britain, sweden and so on reporting thier human rights records and being qiestioned by a panel of international legal experts...you know that politicla ideologies have nothing to do with human rights abuses...unfortunately small countries have to play real politik to survive it is a fact of our circumstance and size not of protitution....there is no time for utopian political concepts in real effective governance...as barbados, switzerland or the bahamas small countries who have effectively used real politik to their economic advantage...overcoming the constraints of their..... I really fear for this country when people are still so concerned with utopian political ideologies....small countries do not have the luxury of engaging in such overly ideological and academic rhetoric.
As decendents of slaves, we have the right not to take money from countries like china where people do not have complete freedom. We shall never forget slavery.
Letter: Enchantment with Fidel Castro?
Published on Wednesday, September 2
Caribbean Net News
Dear Sir:
I am baffled at Caribbean political and opinion leaders enchantment with Fidel Castro. I am baffled as to why his commentaries are even considered for publication in a free journal such as yours. His people cannot read whatever you may publish of his opinings. For that matter they cannot read anything else you publish unless the do so illegally. I sometimes fear that the other Caribbean leaders would like to have such devastating powers over their people. This does not bode well for the pockets and economies of the the Caribbean masses.
These leaders and other take refuge in sayings such as: Cuba has great educational and medical systems. So what? Mussolini made the trains run on time. Hitler brought back much needed pride and discipline to German society. The lesson is not just what a leader has accomplished, but to what end has he accomplished it? Is it to create efficiencies to further oppress peoples and to aggregate power and allegience to himself? Or is it to increase the well being and productivity of the governed? Castro has done his "good" things for the former reasons. He oppresses those who oppose him. He forbids internal criticism and jails those who organize against him. Yet he gains praise and adulation across the Caribbean. Why? Because he gives a few hand outs.
Those Caribbean leaders who praise Castro should be ashamed of themselves. Where else in the world can a white man and a few white elites control a population of majority Blacks and let them live in utter abject poverty? Only in Cuba today. Fidel is white with no black ancestors. The vast majority of the Politburo is white with about three token Blacks. Black Cubans are rlegated to the most menial jobs and can obtain few jobs in the valued sectors such government or tourism. Many Blacks pass for white so the can obtain economic and social benefits. The majority of political prisoners are blacks. Yet no voice rises up to cry like they justly did with South Africa. The vocal praise the only white leader that is oppressing majority Blacks today. They should be ashamed.
John North
St Patrick's
Genada
Let me remind you that the UPW government was not all in favour with re-establishing diplomatic relations with the Taiwaneese Government. Remember that's what caused the conflict withing the party that caused Compton to fire Bousquet. The Taiwaneese are trying their best but they fall short of what China - a world power - can do more for St. Lucia. Helping the agricultural sector, looks and sound Ok, but it's almost a dead end... too mch competition on the world market in both the banana and orchid market. Central (bananas) and South America (orchids) already flood these markets. What we need is help to take us into the informatic age and help build our decaying inferstructure. Maybe the Chinese could revisit building the four-lane-highway... baring in mind the total decay of the roads in St. Lucia. Taiwan cannot really help us... didn't they just accept a $100,000.00 donations from our government!
Bury this loaded crap of yours. A world power can do more for us?? World powers are what have us where we are today. Taiwan in my view have done much more than all of the useless ediface that China but together during Kenny's time.
They are much smarter than the Chinese and they know how to use money wisely. More power to them.
If you worrying too much. China ain't gonna be returning to St Lucia anytime soon.
Donjuan I take your point. I think we can agree here. yes it was this diplomatic decision that caused the rift. There was internal disagreement among the more progressive members of the party and those who had small eyes on short term political and financial gain. I'd say that the small eyed men in the UWP won the argument against the moore progressive party members...to all of our detriment.
Some of the persons using the human rights argument to refuse diplomatic relations with China...please ask Taiwan about its human rights record, also the USA, Britain and all the others...and they all trade and their economies are assisting each other with investment to get out the financial crisis. Forget about ideological arguments between communism and democracy...those have been superseded by other things long ago...this is our moment in international economic history to take of and secure our development prospects. We cannot afford to get caught up in the ideological battles that big countries use on each other as political whips...because they want to gain leverage in each other's markets...wake up and smell the coffee...Taiwan was the biggest diplomatic faux pas St. Lucia ever made!!
Why was Kenny against it when the SLP came to office in 2006. Why hasn't Kenny given recognition to George Odlum for coming up with that idea. Why is it that most SLP supporters and bias to admit that George Odlum was a "wise" man and Kenny is an idiot. You can't have your cake and it too. The name of George Odlum is handly spoken within SLP circles yet his principles are what Labour continues to follow even to this day.
They want to bring down the government through demonstration and protest. Wasn't that the same Kenny who once said that the era of militancy is over. This was George Odlum's time? They want to bring China back. Isn't this the same Kenny who innitially oppposed it. What a great contradiction. What a two tongue leadership.
Accept it. The ghost of George Odlum is Labour. Labour could not do without George in life they can't do with George in death.
As long as there are two governments, one in Taipei and one in Beijing, there are cows to be milked. If China and Taiwan combine, Saint Lucia will get NOTHING from the combined country regardless of whether or not Saint Lucia re-recognized Taiwan in 2007.
The opportune approach until unification (if it happens), then, is to milk the cow that gives the best milk.
What can China offer? Cheap labour. They brought their own workers over to build the white elephants they left behind.
What can Taiwan offer? Intellectual property. They are teaching tissue culture, for example.
One only has to look at the reciprocal investment between the two countries to see who is the brains and who is the brawn.
Maybe China can teach us how to work for $1/day.
Don't bother replying unless you can supply some rationale in your reply.
Down with chin.
We don't like bullies and china is a big one just like chavez.
Remember how china threatened us when we established diplomatic ties with Taiwan? You can take your threats and go shove it, goliath.
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